Luis Dizon: As Jesus Intended

Enjoy the podcast:

Anchor Audio Link = https://anchor.fm/skeptics-and-seekers/episodes/Episode-42-Luis-Dizon-e3nt7k .

As with all these discussions, this was a target-rich environment for a blog post. Frankly, I wanted to write on the slavery discussion. But I will reserve it for the comments.

For me, the most interesting thing Luis said came near the beginning of the podcast. And we didn’t really get to have any discussion over it. He said something to the affect that the Catholic Church was exactly what Jesus was going for. It is what Jesus intended it to be. I find this an astounding claim. Here’s why:

The money

For some reason, I just don’t see Jesus setting up such an enormous organization that funnels that much money. He wasn’t big on money. He didn’t really like it that much. And he didn’t think much of the people who did. Jesus was big on giving money away, not funneling it through the church.

Jesus was the guy who didn’t let his apostles take extra coats or shoes for the road. They couldn’t take money, or provisions, or other needful things. they had to live on what people gave them. Today’s Catholic leaders get paid a very nice stipend considering that they have no family and no expenses. The financial juggernaut that is the Catholic church is most definitely not what Jesus had in mind.

The indulgences, and other odd doctrines

To review, an indulgence is a “get out of jail free” card that you can buy in advance when you really need to commit a sin. It is also loosely tied to the doctrines of purgatory. Luther balked against the sentiment behind Johann Tetzel’s famous quote:

As soon as a coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs.

In addition to prepaying for future sins, a person could buy a loved on out of purgatory. There is little wonder the church was able to raise so much money.

To be fair, indulgences were technically never a part of the doctrine proper. But it was one of those things that was accepted for a long time. And it is not the only non-Jesus teaching to be found in the Catholic church.

The idea of purgatory is something like a halfway house between heaven and hell. Think of it as a holding cell. A person finds themselves in purgatory because their soul is in such balance that a proper decision cannot be made as to their eternal destiny. Jesus spoke of two lines on Judgement Day: one for the sheep and one for the goats. Purgatory requires another line that the Catholic church just conveniently made up.

The practice of praying the Mary and other saints is another one of those doctrines that would have been foreign to Jesus. He was all about breaking down the barriers. We didn’t need priests to perform sacraments for us. And we didn’t need to find creative ways to get god to listen to us. We could go directly to the father for our needs.

The Catholics, however, believe that one can greatly increase their chances of being heard if they go through an intermediary. The idea is that they pray directly to a middleman. And that middleman (middle-person) takes it the rest of the way. This may seem like a little thing. But it is a major departure from mainstream Christian belief. And it is a long way from what Jesus seemed to have championed.

The polity

To me, the biggest departure from the vision of Jesus is the existence of the church, itself. The organizational structure of the church is called church polity. It is the priests and bishops and cardinals and so on. The problem with church polity begins with the notion that Jesus appointed Peter to be the first pope. Here is a good summary of why no protestant accepts that idea:

https://www.jashow.org/articles/how-convincing-is-the-roman-catholic-view-that-peter-was-the-first-pope-part-1/

To me, the biggest problem with the whole structure is that Jesus never envisioned the world going on long enough to require one. He, and Paul, were convinced that the world was coming to an end very soon. The resurrection of all the saints was at hand. Matthew seemed to believe that the story of the saints rising in Matt 27 was the beginning of the end. The wheels were already in motion. Jesus was not setting up an elaborate organization. He was preparing people for the final in-breaking of the kingdom.

Conclusion: Nailed it!

Every denomination believes that if Jesus returned today, he would sift through the yellow pages and quickly recognize his kingdom in that particular denomination. While many do not have an exclusivist mindset, they do believe that they are most like what Jesus envisioned, and would have created had he been here to see the establishment of the church through in person.

In short, they all believed they nailed it. But it seems to me that most attempts at organized religion only serve to nail Jesus to the cross afresh. They collect money in his name. They frighten people with eternal torment in his name. They offer fanciful rewards in his name. They attempt to pass laws and manipulate how other people live their lives in his name. Jesus is no longer the door. The church is the door. And it is a door that leads to nowhere that I want to go.

And that’s the view from the skeptic.

David Johnson

 

 

TOPICS: The topics in the show include;

1. What evidence is there for Christianity- discussion of Messianic prophecies and the Resurrection.

2. Interpreting the OT, especially the early chapters of Genesis (his area of expertise as a PhD student at U of T).

3. Questions on Islam- his passion.

4. Moral Issues in the Bible- specifically slavery and violence in the OT.

5. Catholicism vs. Protestantism.

Recommended Sources (for further study):

1. Luis’ Main blog site =https://eacanada.wordpress.com/author/nimcanada/. Luis especially recommends seeing his blog article about why he changed his mind on Catholicism here = https://eacanada.wordpress.com/2018/10/31/ive-changed-my-mind/.

2. Luis’ scholarly papers = http://wycliffecollege.academia.edu/LuisDizon.

3. Various YouTube lectures and debates that Luis has participated in = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5_OTollJ-o&list=PL23N3iMpVxSWCZGHI8lcxXWVovwSqyI4u. Luis recommends people see especially his debate with our mutual friend and world famous Islamic Apologist Dr. Shabir Ally on the topic of the Bible vs. Quran here = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8uya5km0TU&list=PL23N3iMpVxSWCZGHI8lcxXWVovwSqyI4u&index=2.

4. Various Debates on the Differences Between Catholics and Protestants (as prepared by Luis on YouTube) here = https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL23N3iMpVxSVtnVeDX0AzvSvxk-bUzLn1.

5. Luis has also recommended the following Catholic sources;

1. a) Dei Verbum – This is one of the documents that came out in Vatican II (1965). It summarizes how Catholics approach the Bible, including the canon of scripture, our definitions of infallibility and inerrancy, and how to interpret the Bible = http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html.

1950. b) Humani Generis – This is a papal encyclical that Pope Pius XII put out in 1950. It deals primarily with the question of human origins in relation to the Christian faith. Paragraphs 35-38 are particularly important because they summarize the Catholic view on creation and evolution = http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis.html.

2. c) Fides et Ratio – This is an encyclical that Pope John Paul II put out in 1998 that details the relationship between faith and reason in the Catholic view, and contrasts it with the views of other religions and philosophical systems = http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_14091998_fides-et-ratio.html.